The Flow of Rumi's Wisdom: An Interview with Muhammad Ali Mojaradi
Life is like a gushing river, a relentless current. We reach for fleeting moments and possessions, grasping at the water that perpetually flows between our fingers. This yearning, Rumi warns, brings only the sting of loss. By releasing our attachment to these passing fancies, we become one with the river's vastness. Peace washes over us, a joy that mirrors the endless flow itself, welling up from the depths of our being. It is a surrender, not to emptiness, but to an infinitely richer connection with ourselves and with God.
Rumi, the 13th-century Sufi mystic, left behind a legacy of poems that explore life's profound questions, offering valuable lessons for all who seek them. At the heart of Rumi's teachings lies the concept of transformation. He compels us to view hardships and setbacks as stepping stones, metaphors captured in his famous quote, "The wound is the place of entry for divine grace." Like a phoenix rising from the ashes, we, too, can transform hardship into a catalyst for becoming our most magnificent selves.
The importance of mental and emotional well-being is emphasized in many of Rumi’s poems. He compares the untamed mind to a raging illness, highlighting the need for self-awareness and inner peace. His teachings on love and compassion promote emotional well-being, developing a sense of connection that combats isolation and loneliness. Furthermore, Rumi's concept of oneness with all creation aligns with the United Nations' Sustainable Development Goal of Good Health and Well-Being. He emphasizes living in harmony with nature, recognizing the interconnectedness of all living things. This philosophy encourages environmental stewardship, a crucial factor in ensuring a healthy world for generations to come, which also aligns with the goal of protecting Life on Land.
Rumi's words are steeped in rhythm and rhyme. To deliver his message through translation, one should seek not just literal meaning but also the corresponding musicality in the target language. Translating poetry is a delicate act. It involves capturing the essence of the text, not just the words, and using figurative language, rhythm, and sound. A faithful translation ensures the original meaning is preserved. However, a strictly literal approach might overlook the beauty and musicality of the poem. The technical aspects of translation are just the foundation – the true beauty lies in its artistic expression.
Poetry often relies on cultural references and wordplay. These can be difficult to translate directly, as the equivalent meaning or humour might not exist in the target language. The translator needs to find creative solutions to convey the intended feeling. However, some loss may be inevitable, as some aspects of the original poem, like the specific sound of words or cultural references, might not have a perfect equivalent in the new language and the translator has to accept some loss while trying to preserve the overall impact
In contrast, other translators may take liberties to make the quotes flow better in English, but this can risk straying from the original meaning. Some translators, like Coleman Barks, who, as he stated, does not have any knowledge of the Persian language, have been criticized for prioritizing poetic licence over strict fidelity to Farsi. This has led to readable and digestible quotes, but ones that do not accurately reflect Rumi's message. In an exclusive interview with Arts Help, the founder of Persian Poetics and a renowned translator and linguist himself, Muhammad Ali Mojaradi, also known as @sharghzadeh on X and Instagram, explains how a good translator of poetry needs to be both a skilled linguist, understanding the nuances of both languages and a poet themselves, with an ear for rhythm and imagery.
Could you tell us about your first steps and inspirations that initially drew you to Rumi and his work?
Analyzing the poems' literary techniques and historical context has led to a deeper appreciation of them. My studies at the University of Michigan have also introduced me to Rumi's work in a more academic setting. Also, growing up in an Iranian household, I had exposure to Persian culture and literature from a young age. Rumi is a highly revered poet in Iran, and my interest has stemmed from a desire to connect with his heritage.
How do you interpret Rumi's message of love, loss, and the search for the divine in your work?
In Rumi's work, love acts as a transformative fire, igniting a yearning for something beyond ourselves. This yearning encompasses passionate human love, divine love, and the deep desire for spiritual connection. However, loss and separation are central themes, reflecting the human experience of feeling disconnected from the divine. Paradoxically, Rumi suggests this very loss can be necessary on the spiritual journey, pushing us to seek reunion with that which feels distant. And understanding Rumi's messages fully requires grounding in Islamic context and history.
Do you have a favourite Rumi poem or collection of poems when it comes to translation? Or do you do a selection process?
It’s hard to choose a favourite poem for Rumi. Given the abundance of brilliant poems by Rumi, choosing a single favourite is a challenge. Instead, I curate a selection, prioritizing those that address potential misinterpretations.
When you create something inspired by Rumi, what sparks your imagination first? Is it a specific theme, a particular poem, or something else entirely?
Authenticity is my driving force. In my translations, I prioritize faithfully representing Rumi's Islamic background and ensuring his ideas are portrayed accurately. Additionally, I'm drawn to his lesser-known poems, and my forthcoming book delves into this by presenting 100 previously untranslated poems by Rumi.
How do you balance the historical and spiritual aspects of Rumi with your own voice?
With a background in Persian poetry, Islamic studies, and Arabic, I can grasp the nuances of Rumi's work within its historical and spiritual context, ensuring faithful translation. This understanding extends to preserving the poem's form – rhyme, metre, metaphors – while conveying the original meaning with accuracy. When translating spiritual concepts or metaphors, I prioritize finding English equivalents that resonate with the reader while remaining true to the source material.
While researching Rumi's life, I was curious if you have had the chance to visit significant locations like Konya, Turkey, where Rumi spent most of his life. And did such travels influence your understanding of his work?
I've actually been fortunate enough to visit Konya several times. While Rumi's poems often reference places like Damascus, Samarkand, and Balkh, Konya holds a special place in his life's journey. Compared to those other cities, Konya might seem smaller, but its deep connection to Rumi is undeniable. Immersing myself in the city's culture and spirituality offered a richer understanding of the environment that shaped his work. Visiting Rumi's mausoleum and other historical sites also brought the historical context of his era to life, deepening my appreciation for his poetry.
Do you hope your work prompts those familiar with Rumi to reconsider their interpretations of his poems?
I believe Rumi deserves a deeper understanding. Many readers come to his work through popular quotes, some of which may be mistranslated. Ideally, my work would spark a curiosity to explore these nuances. I'd love for viewers to feel empowered to delve into reliable sources and discover the richness of Rumi's true message. When someone tells me that they love Rumi, I explain to them that many of his quotes are mistranslated and show them a resource to check the right one and replace it.
What are the most egregious misinterpretations or rumours attributed to Rumi that you have come across?
Rumi's popularity can sometimes lead to misinterpretations. One criticism focuses on translators who can’t read Persian. For example, Coleman Barks' translations are based on existing English versions, and it prioritizes a poetic feel over strict accuracy. Additionally, Barks sometimes removes references to Islam, even though Rumi's work is deeply rooted in Islam. He also rephrases ideas to appeal more to Western audiences, potentially straying from Rumi's original meaning.
In your opinion, what makes Rumi's poetry so enduring and relevant to readers today?
As human beings, we always have a spiritual yearning. Rumi's poems express a deep yearning for connection with the divine. Even for those who aren't religious, the poems tap into a fundamental human desire for something beyond the material world.
Can translators be considered storytellers in a way? What key qualities does a translator need to possess, especially when tackling Persian poetry like Rumi's work?
Like storytellers, translators connect cultures. Storytellers use narratives to immerse us in new experiences, while translators, especially those working with poetry, extract the inherent story within the verse and effectively convey it in a new language. To truly understand Rumi's words, a deep grasp of the Persian language is essential. This includes understanding historical context and cultural references. A skilled translator of Rumi's poetry goes beyond simply conveying meaning. They act as a bridge between cultures, a guardian of the poem's essence, and someone who strives to recreate the original poem's beauty and emotional resonance in the new language.
In the quiet corners of the world, far from the clamour of everyday life, there exists a space where whispers of deeper truths can be heard. It is a place where weary souls gather, yearning for something more, a connection that transcends the ordinary. Words have the power to transport us; they can build bridges across time and culture, offering solace and inspiration to those who seek it. In the poetry of Rumi, these words take on a life of their own, forming meanings that resonate with the deepest human desires.
Those seeking solace from the daily grind gather, drawn by an invisible thread that whispers promises of peace. Some, with hearts heavy with longing, yearn for a deeper understanding of their place in the universe, echoing the yearning Rumi expressed in his poem The Guest House. Others, with a thirst for knowledge, seek a path to self-discovery, mirroring the introspective journey Rumi lays out in his epic poem Masnavi. Even those simply seeking a touch of beauty in their day find solace in the poet's verses. His words, like the vibrant imagery in The Rose Garden, paint pictures that linger long after the last line is spoken, offering a refuge from the mundane and a glimpse into the vastness of the soul.
Mojaradi's dedication to making Rumi accessible through translation and social media initiatives like #rumiwasmuslim reflects the poet's emphasis on connection and understanding across cultures and religions. Rumi's words, even centuries later, hold the power to bridge divides and offer solace and guidance. As Mojaradi suggests, delving into Rumi's poetry is an ongoing journey, one that can reveal more about ourselves and the world around us with each exploration.
Perennial in its appeal, Jalaluddin Rumi's poetry offers a timeless exploration of the human condition, providing seekers with pathways to self-discovery, a deeper connection to the transcendent, and moments of everyday beauty. Through Mojaradi's masterful translation, this literary treasure continues to be unearthed and disseminated to new generations. Mojaradi's work exemplifies the vital role of translation in fostering intercultural understanding, ensuring that Rumi's profound insights illuminate our individual journeys.